Sump layout

[Adam Mac]

This look like a good layout for a sump? Water goes in and over the first small spot. Then into the LR bin. Which will hold uv sterilizer heaters etc. The next is for skimmer which will be a vertex180 like ive mentioned before, then last you got your baffles for bubble trap. And last your return pump in the last smaller spot. Anyone see anyways to improve or see something that will cause problems? Let me know I want to order glass today!! If not tommorrow!

[Myka]

I am assuming you meant to add a picture or a link?

[Adam Mac]

I dont get how you put pictures on this site. Everytime I try to upload a picture to the thread it says the picture is too big. Anyone know how to fix this problem. I cant show you a pic of the layout till I learn how to upload pics :(!!

[lockrookie]

get a photobucket acount upload tp the photobucket account post link to thread and youll have a picture

[Adam Mac]

http://s756.photobucket.com/albums/xx202/Adam_Mac/Fish%20Tank/Sump/?action=view&current=untitled.jpg

That work?? Hope so!!

[lockrookie]

this works as well
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx202/Adam_Mac/Fish%20Tank/Sump/untitled.jpg

[Adam Mac]

You see any problem in that setup lock? Or you have any good ideas for me?

[lockrookie]

no i dont really see any problems with it it should work fine

[Adam Mac]

Right on. Thanks for your help. Its only a 33 gallon so space is kind of limited. Sucks but do what you gotta do.

[lockrookie]

dude i only use a 20g sump 33 will be just fine

[mich denis]

the way in understand saltwater sumps is that the skimmer should be in the first section of the sump that the water "sees".
reason for that is to get rid of the D.O.C. (dissolves organic compounds) before they have a chance to break down into something else.

the way i designed my 30gal sump has the water leaving the tank and going through a pre-filter. (to catch any chunks)
from there it enters the 10gal skimmer section and leaves through the bubble trap.
some of the flow goes through the 5gal refugium and the rest to the heater/pump section.
refugium drains into the heater/pump section also.
the tank is 50gal and i'm moving about 500GPH through the sump.
another 700GPH closed loop in the tank.

[Adam Mac]

So if you put skimmer first then how do you get your water level high in the next slot for your live rock holding and heaters and uv ster??

[Adam Mac]

And also I decided to go with the vertex 250 in sump just cause the price was right. And I would like to put this part first does anyone know the max water height this particular skimmer can sit in? I cant seem to find that on anysite. I might have to phone J and L.(Bought there)

[mich denis]

the way i have things setup, the skimmer sits on a little stand (so it's not too deep in the water) and i can put live rock rubble under it if i want.

the heater i use is submersible and laying horizontally across the bottom of the pump section.
that way, the pump will run out of water before the heater does.

as for the UV sterilizer, you could just "T" off the drain from the tank and control the flow through it with a ball valve or gate valve.
then have it train into the skimmer section with the rest of the water.

to have another section with a high water level, just add a wall (after the bubble trap) that is a bit lower than the output of the bubble trap.

here is a picture of my sump.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e246/84scottsdale/sumpb.jpg

[mich denis]

if J&L does not know, you might have to contact the votrex manufacturer directly.

i have noticed that many skimmers are supposed to be in 7-9 inches of water.
i'd say try 7inches of water and go from there.

[kirk]

i have one 6-8" of water and an auto top off is recommended

[kirk]

it is 12 +30" h just to let you know

[Myka]

You can use something as simple as the one in the picture on the left:
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/side/sump_i1.jpg

If you did that, the skimmer would go on one side along with the water going in. The other side would be for your rock and return pump. You would position the return pump as far away from the baffles as possible to get the least amount of microbubbles.

If you aren't using an auto top off you should make the return chamber as large as possible as all the evaporation will show up in the return chamber. If that chamber is small you could run the pump dry just with a day's evaporation.

In your picture:
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx202/Adam_Mac/Fish%20Tank/Sump/untitled.jpg

The single baffles on the right doesn't need to be there. Also if you are going to run two drain lines you should run them both continuously to the sump instead of Y'ing them into one. Also the return chamber is too small, and the middle baffle on the left only has to be an inch or so taller than the other two baffles. You will get tonnes of microbubbles the way you have it setup.

[Myka]

FWIW, this is what I did with my sump. Skimmer chamber is on the left, return chamber on the right. The way it is designed, I have a little egg crate shelf in that media chamber where I cut a sheet of floss to fit, and about 30% of the water going through the sump goes through the media. I don't like all the water to go through the media because it catches good things too like pods.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Sump.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Sump4.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Sump3.jpg

[Adam Mac]

K this is my final setup I think. First part the water will go underneath the skimmer area into the media/rubble or whatever. Then ill put egg crate across for the skimmer to sit on, this is just to get it to whatever depth it needs to operate because I want the first compartment with the most water possible. Then after the skimmer it goes up and into the live rock/refugium area. The baffles for bubbles and then a bigger return section? Sound good or still a no go???

http://s756.photobucket.com/albums/xx202/Adam_Mac/Fish%20Tank/Sump/

[Myka]

If you're drawing to scale, then it looks like your return chamber is only about 6" long? If so, that's still too small. If you are able to top up everyday you will still need the return chamber to hold at least 4 gallons otherwise your tank may evaporate enough for the pump to run dry in only a day. Also, if it is to scale the baffles look too tall. One last thing, I would suggest adding a 4th baffle in the return chamber with it being 1" off the bottom. The way you have it now the baffles will be a moot point because as water evaporates, the level will go down in the return chamber, and then the water will fall into the return chamber quite a distance. this will create bubbles that the return pump will chop up into microbubbles.

Why do you want to separate the live rock chamber from the return chamber? Are you wanting to put sand in the sump? I wouldn't suggest that, but if that's your plan then you can build a mini baffle that is only 2-3" tall to hold back the sand. As long as you use a coarser grade sand like Caribsea Select or Special and your return pump isn't very big it shouldn't blow around.

Be sure to calculate how much water will flow into the sump when a power outage happens so you don't end up with a wet floor. Just turning the skimmer on and off will raise and lower the water level in the sump at least a couple inches. There will be a certain amount of back siphoning from the plumbing lines as well. I think you are planning to have too much water in the sump...hard to say without calculating it.

[Adam Mac]

Yah the drawing wasnt really made to scale cause im still waiting on parts. Once they all arrive I will draw up a really accurate to scale drawing. And yes I was planning to have a sandbed in the sump thats why i wanted to seperate the water and I heard its bad to get gravel/sand caught in those return pumps. Therefore I thought id be smart to make it in that way. Also saw a video on youtube on a somewhat similar build. I really dont know exactly what to do :(!! I want something that works. I guess I could just copy your drawing. I just thought this was I could have a nice spot to have everything growing and all that. And not much maintance on the return pump and such.

[Myka]

Ya, your drawing will work as long as you make the return chamber big enough, and add another baffle. You can make the first (right) baffle as tall as you want to, then make the third (from the right) baffle considerably shorter to reduce the fall of water to the fourth baffle. In my sump I have live rock in the return chamber, but no sand. My sump isn't perfect that's for sure. It may not be what you want. Sumps are difficult to design if you haven't done it before. You will make it one way, and there will be a few things you want to change or you will say "Well that didn't work the way I thought it would." You will make mistakes on the first one, no matter what anyone tells you to do because everyone wants something a bit different out of their sump.

Check out Melev's reef (Google it) for lots of different sump and sump/refugium ideas. His designs are all really good, and designed for different purposes.

[Adam Mac]

K so the skimmer needs atleast 16 inches out of the 36 that I have total. So what should i do. And the skimmer works best in about 8 inches of water, and I would like the skimmer part first to remove stuff as soon as I can. And I would like to allow about 6 inches for return chamber part. Or is it better to just do baffles have way threw the tank at about 18 inches do like 4 baffles or whatever then just have live rock on the other side with equipment mixed in with the rock?

[Myka]

I placed my baffles immediately after the skimmer so I could leave the return chamber as large as possible since I didn't have an ATO at the time. It just so happened it was pretty much the middle of the sump since my sump is only 30" long, and the skimmer takes up half that.

[Adam Mac]

Yah I guess I went with the way yours is Mindy. I left enough room for this skimmer then I did a baffle up from the bottom 16" Then I left a inch at the bottom of the next baffle and it went an inch higher than the first one. The next baffle goes from the botom up and its 12 inches. Then the next one is another 12 inch baffle but it will be 1 inch off the bottom. With all baffles being 1 inch from each other. That left me with about 16-17 inches left for my other side. So now my question is. This last baffle, if my max water level lets say is like 2 or 3 inches lower than the last baffle total height is this going to make for a noisy waterfall kinda thing? Or do you want that last baffle to be level or like a 1/4 inch higher than your max water level?? So when your water levels are perfect your system is the most quiet it can be?? Is this making any sense?

[Myka]

You want it pretty close to the sump water level. Mine is about an inch higher than the sump level. Works ok. I get some microbubbles.

[mich denis]

in my sump, the water entering the return pump section from the bubble trap and the refugium drain drops about 7inches.

i have no micro-bubbles and no noise.
moving 500GPH.

you can see a picture of it on page 2 of this thread.
the 2L bottle is my "automatic" top-off.

first baffle goes from the top of the sump down to 3" from the bottom.
second baffle is from the bottom up and 1" from the top.
both of these baffles are 12" front to back and 1" apart.
right now, 1/2 the second baffle dumps into the pump section and the other 1/2 into the refug.
refug drain is a 3" wide notch at the far end.

[Adam Mac]

Ok so how am i supposed to know where the water level is going to drop to once i fire all these things up. Because the skimmer alone takes alot of water, plus the overflow and the return. So I guess my worry is what if I make the last baffle to high and it has a long drop down. I am trying to think of a way to figure this out without hooking everything up and running it then empting the tank and yada yada yada....to much screwing around. Is there some way you can figure out roughly where your water is going to drop to without taking drastic measures. First part is 16 inches deep. With the skimmer sitting 8 inches up in that chamber. Then the next one will be a total of 13 inches high....sooooo lol thats about as far as I got!!!

[mich denis]

I am trying to think of a way to figure this out without hooking everything up and running it then empting the tank and yada yada yada....to much screwing around.

i find that's the best way to figure out how much water will be on the move with the system up and running.
i kinda like the designing and inventing part.

how much of a water drop there will be depends on a few things.
the efficiency of the overflow and drain are big ones.