ammonia

[trrunner]

Water testing today detected ammonia in the water. The level of ammonia is +/- .1. Lost a pennant fish today.

Tank is 55 gal reef. Large HOB skimmer. I do a 10% water change approx once per week. 3 small tangs, 1 dottyback, 2 clowns, 1 lawnmower blenny. Lots of assorted snails and crabs.

Water parameters are;
ph - 8.1
temp - 79
nitrate - +/- 5
salinity - 1.25
ammonia - +/- .1

What is the most likely problem and what is the best solution?

Thanks in advance

[binghamd]

hopefully the salinity (specific gravity actually) is a typo & should be 1.025

live rock ?? when added??
how long has tank been running?

normally all water chemistry should be close to undetectable in a mature tank - even with problems (quite often nitrates are gobbled up as fast as they are produced)

ammonia is not good - usually means something large died or heavy overstocking of fish?

- if ph / dkh is way off then snails & crabs may die out of site & pollute tank.

[trrunner]

A typo:) Happens a lot.

Tank up and running since beginning of May. Started with live rock - 70 lbs and sand.

Stock as listed. The Pennant died this morning and taken out immediately. A firefish died approx 2 weeks ago. There was a die off of some snails but that happened about a good month ago.

I check the levels weekly and this is the first time anything has been out of order.

Anything else to look for?

Thanks

[patrick]

If you dont mind me asking what brand of test kits do you use?

[trrunner]

Hagen and AP drop tests. Hagen are new and AP little older. Have used both for my freshwater tanks also.

[binghamd]

Salt tanks take much longer to stabilize the nitrogen cycle than fresh. it may take a month or more when curing rock (depending on die off).

A tank may take 6 months to a year or more to be classified as 'mature'.

Any changes in skimmate (color or volume)?

Ph may be a bit low - otherwise keep up with water changes & regular checking of chemistry - this may just be a bit of a wobble and may work itself out.

- beware of overfeeding fish it wont hurt to go without feeding for a day occaisionally. its hard to do when they look at you with those big googly fisheyes though.

[patrick]

Iread somewhere that hagen test kits are not for saltwater even if they say saltwater on the box,thats what i used to use,i've now switched to Salifert brand,a bit more expensive but way better and accurate then hagen's,these guys read your results by points and not by hard to read color variations.

[trrunner]

The rock was from Saskatoon and was supposed to be cured. Came with loads of shrooms and other interesting things.

I have a Remora Pro. From what I have read it is working properly but then I have nothing to compare it to. Lots of crud in the collection cup and somewhat nasty smell. Clean the collection cup every 3-4 days.

Parameters have been steady so hopefully this is only a 'wobble'. Could be a feeding issue though. Have to monitor that better.

Will look into the testing kits also.

Thanks!

[Adam NS.]

the rock could have had a small amount of die off in the couple of hours it was out of water. I assure you it was cured.

[Myka]

If the tank was only setup in May you have WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many fish in there already. Remember this saying, "Nothing GOOD happens FAST in a saltwater aquarium." You're moving too fast, and you're causing problems by doing this.

A 55g tank is too small for any type of Tang (let alone three of them), and also the Bannerfish (Pennant). You should try to research about fish before you add them to your tank to make sure they are appropriate. depending on the size of those tangs you will need to re-home them all within the next year max. Does the Lawnmower eat prepared foods? They often never get used to feeding on prepared foods, and will usually die in a smaller tank.

The best thing you can do at this point is to not add anything to the tank for at least a couple weeks. A month would be better because you already have quite a few fish in there considering the age of the tank. It should take you 12-18 months to get your tank to it's stocking capacity for fish. If you get it fully stocked before then you're moving too fast. There are a lot of things going on in your tank that you can't see, and which take a long time to balance out. If it was my tank I would do a 50% water change right now, and carry on with daily 50% water changes until the ammonia is gone. If you're not confident doing a large water change, let us know, and I'm sure we can help you out.

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, I don't mean to, but you're going to get a lot more losses if you don't get some help here. Feel free to ask me any questions you have, I don't mind PMs. These forums are great too, ask lots of questions. :)

[trrunner]

The ammonia has subsided a bit today and will be watching carefully.

I would have to agree with Adam that the rock was cured. There was very little die off as he had the rock very moist and it came to life almost immediately.

Adam, TJSlayer, Crazyfish and others have helped significantly in setting this up. Stocking a tank can always be an issue and from the reading I have done, watching this forum and help from others, I think I have a decent mix except possibly 1 too many tangs as Myka suggests. The fish were added over a period of time and certainly not all at once. Tried to limit it to 2 at a time. As for W/Cs, will do another shortly to try and reduce the ammonia.

So far everything appears very peaceful and there have been no squables etc that I can see.

[Myka]

I think you missed the part where I said a 55g tank is too small for any Tang. ;) Yellow tangs and Kole tangs are the two smallest tangs, and neither are happy in a 55 long term. I know you don't want to hear it, but you should. If your tank was setup in the very beginning of May, then it has been setup for a max of 2 months. That is very, very, very young. I'm trying to help you out here, save you money from losses, and save you headache from issues. I'm not working against you. :)

[marihoochie]

I agree with Myka..that's some very good advice.

[trrunner]

I have no problem listening to any advice given and have to determine what is the best advice especially when there is conflicting opinion.

As for adding more fish, I don't think I suggested anywhere I was adding any in the near future. I have been told that with the amount of live rock that I have from the start and the same goes for the live sand that the tank was ready for moderate stocking. Adding 2 fish at he beginning of May, 2 at the beginning of June and 2 more at the beginning of July was the route I should go. This advice came from a couple of people that have been in this for a while.

I am however going to change this tank over to a 75 or a 90 gal within the next six months and transfer everything to the larger tank. Very addicting!

Not discounting what you say by any means and will consider any advice you have. Like I said there are plenty of differing opinions.

[trrunner]

This started out as a serious inquiry about a bit of an ammonia spike and got hijacked to a stocking issue. I value any opinions but for now would like to get any insight out there regarding the ammonia issue.

No doubt I will have to get into stock problems but need to solve this first.

SO, no dead or decaying fish, some dead snails, regular w/c's, perhaps a bit of overfeeding but not much, active 'clean-up crew'etc. Cured live rock and sand.

Any other suggestions??

Thanks
Moe

[TJSlayer]

As mentioned it is probably more a combination of "new tank syndrome" (Tank is not really mature so to speak - but is much futher ahead that what it would be if you started out without the uncured rock and sand and such) This is what requires the time for it to come to a nice balance within itself and there is nothing much you can do to help this along.

That cobined with some of the deaths from snails and a few of the fish is probably what is causing you the headaches, but it should balance itself out...

Just do a few larger water changes over the next week and keep a close eye on things, watch the feeding as it sounds you have, etc.

I don't think anyone is jumping on you too seriously regarding the stocking issues and most people proabably don't realize that you were planning on upgrading to a larger setup hence the advice regarding the 55 and tangs, but they will be fine over the next six months in that size of tanks as they are all pretty small now.

If you see anything else dead remove it asap so that you don't start this over again but I think it will balance itself out. Again i think this is mainly a case of the tank being newer, regular stocking / and a few deaths occuring that tank just hasn't had time to catch up to itself ....

Don't add any other livestock for a bit and do some water changes to help balance things out...you'll be fine...

Cheers Buddy
TJ

[trrunner]

Thanks for the input frome everyone!!!

Always appreciated!!